katherine_b: (DW - companion captured Eddy Izzard)
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posted by [personal profile] katherine_b at 09:08pm on 28/09/2010 under
With no thanks to [livejournal.com profile] bas_math_girl, who was mean, cruel and nasty enough to give me ROSE. Still, could have been worse. Could have been Amy... *shudder*

My problem is that I see several different Roses when I watch the series, so my answers will be a little bit uneven. And possibly long. But anyone who's read my fics should know that I am rarely succint.

1.) Do you like this character?

Sometimes.

I shall explain. After a brief fling with Four in my youth, I came to modern DW late, briefly in the Martha era, and then into Donna's time, which no doubt helps to explain my love of her (well, that and how awesome she is). This meant, though, that Rose was a name to me and not much else. So when I saw her properly for the first time in Turn Left I thought she was annoying and took far too much attention off Donna (the latter still bugs me a lot). I also didn't get the Bad Wolf thing. And I hated her viciously in Stolen Earth/Journey's End because the whining and the selfish attitude meant that there wasn't much I could do except hate her, particularly since it seemed like she had caused the problems in the first place by trying to cross over to the proper universe. So Donna's fate is Rose's fault and not Ten's. I found (still find) that a much easier idea to accept. Why, yes, I am still a little bitter. Thank you for noticing.

However when I went back to S1 and did my best to watch it with an open mind, I found myself liking her there. I enjoyed the wide-eyed innocence, the street-smarts, and I loved the chemistry with Nine because they were an excellent partnership, being equals in a similar way to Ten and Donna. Unfortunately after really finding myself liking her by the end (not loving her though), I started S2 and found her to be totally extraneous. She became the character I had always hated in the old series - the helpless female who stood and screamed until the Doctor rescued her (see Eddy Izzard's comments below on the topic of companions being rescued beginning at 4:14):



2.) What name(s) do you call this character?

Rose. Or 'the young blonde female shop assistant' when I'm trying to be a bit cryptic. I'm rubbish at nicknames. Especially my own.

3.) What image/colour do you associate with character?

Dark blue/purple because that was the colour of the jacket she wore in Turn Left.

4.) What song do you associate with this character?

I'm afraid my first thought was "What About Me?" by the Moving Pictures (which I think I have now ruined for myself for ever).



5.) What blood type do you think this character is?

AB negative, because she's supposed to be unique and it's the only special thing I can understand her having.

6.) From all of the titles that feature this character, what other character do you think makes a good pairing with this character?

As I said above, she did work beautifully with Nine. She gave him what he needed and he did the same with her. After Nine, though, I know we're all meant to chorus "Ten", but I really don't feel like she was ever what he needed. She needed him, but not vice versa. She was also a bundle of contradictions during her appearances in S4. We're supposed to see how strong and independent she's become, crossing the universes, carrying a whopping great gun and all that, but as soon as she's with the Doctor again, she once more becomes the weak female who needs to be saved, and put where she needs to go, and left somewhere safe. Jack does it first, trying to protect her from the regeneration, and then Ten takes over after Jack is 'killed' by trying to warn Davros off. The mixed messages she gives off probably annoy me almost more than the "What about me?" bit in Stolen Earth. Yes, that has a lot to do with the writing, but the writing was what made me like her in the first place, hence my bitterness.

7.) What would you want to say to this character?

For the most part, sadly, "Grow up and get over yourself!"

8.) What do you want to do with this character?

Leave her either with Nine or else back in the alternate universe - but without Handy. Sorry.

9.) Please choose five friends with your choice of character.

Not picking anyone! Please nominate yourself if you haven't done it and either ask for a character or pick one of the following:
Dalek Caan
Luke Rattigan
Jenny
Sylvia Noble
The Stewardess
Mood:: 'thoughtful' thoughtful
There are 24 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] bookwormsarah.livejournal.com at 11:36am on 28/09/2010
I agree with you so much about Rose - she irritated me constantly and the Rose/Ten vibe we were all supposed to get was completely out of character for the Doctor/Companion relationship. It was as if we were supposed to forget that there had been thirty-odd companions before her...

Could I have a character please?
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 11:40am on 28/09/2010
Yes. I presumed RTD was so enamoured of his creation that that little fact slipped his mind.

Hmm - Wilf!
ext_232730: (Bowie Doctor)
posted by [identity profile] the-gabih.livejournal.com at 11:38am on 28/09/2010
So Donna's fate is Rose's fault and not Ten's.

Not bitter at all- at least, if you are bitter, it's only as much as you can be when you're right. And she's so much better in series 1, I agree- series 2 had so many people going on about the chemistry between her and 10, and it was just, no.

Can haz Martha please?
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 11:42am on 28/09/2010
Aw, thank you for agreeing with me!

And you can haz Martha, but there must be a least one mention of Mickey. ;-)
ext_232730: (11!)
posted by [identity profile] the-gabih.livejournal.com at 01:28pm on 28/09/2010
You're vair welcome! :)

And... there is, but I'm not sure if it's quite what you were after...
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 12:04am on 29/09/2010
I didn't have specific thoughts in mind, I just wanted to get your opinion on the subject, which I did. ;-)
 
posted by [identity profile] lemon-pencil.livejournal.com at 11:40am on 28/09/2010
Great meming :D I feel very much the same way - that Nine and Rose were great together, but Ten and Rose not so much. After Series 4, I found myself resenting Rose quite a lot, and wondering why I ever liked her, but I have to remember Series 1 and how good she was in that.

Most annoying thing about Rose? How much she complained about getting a happy ending in JE! Um, SOME characters got their minds wiped, Rose, be grateful! *growls*
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 11:45am on 28/09/2010
Why, thank you! And I can like her if I imagine her as different character. Hmm, maybe she regenerated after absorbing the time vortex into someone entirely different...

God yes! A huge smacker from Ten (and a bit), back with family in a world that has risked its own future to suit you, and full knowledge of everything you've done, as does everyone else (unlike Martha, whose Crowning Moment of Awesome is known only to a small handful).

Hmph!
bas_math_girl: Doctor Come With Me (CT+DT cool shades)
posted by [personal profile] bas_math_girl at 11:41am on 28/09/2010
Your answers definitely have less vitriol than mine! Well done!!
I've never heard of that song before - it shall always mean Rose to me now.
You meany using Eddie Izzard like that! I LOVE that man! So thanks for giving me a flipping big laugh this afternoon! :D
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 11:46am on 28/09/2010
*lol* Yes, clearly I was feeling nice. Actually, I just tried to be balanced and explain my feelings in a somewhat reasonable way.

Yay for introducing you to bad 80s songs. And Eddy Izzard brightens up any day!
snowflakie06: (amy happy sunflowers doctor who)
posted by [personal profile] snowflakie06 at 01:50pm on 28/09/2010
Can I do this with Mickey? I feel like he doesn't get enough love just 'omfg he's so annoying!' from too many people :(

And I do agree with you on a lot of stuff but I started watching with the episode Rose after only watching Runaway Bride so I was always sort of hoping for them to bring the "old" Rose (aka when she was with Nine) back so I kind of blinded myself to a lot of it. Plus I really like Billie - especially after reading her autobiography XD
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 12:03am on 29/09/2010
*g* yes, but you have to mention both Rose and Martha at least once. ;-)

I don't mind Billie, but I don't feel as if she was ever stretched in an acting sense, the way she is in other things, like Secret Diary. Perhaps it's because so much of what she was acting with was CGI, but I couldn't appreciate her that much. As for the old Rose, I don't feel as if that would have worked with the new Ten. That's always going to be my problem.
snowflakie06: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] snowflakie06 at 12:49am on 29/09/2010
Posted it here: http://snowflakie06.livejournal.com/1117700.html :)

And yeah, I can understand about her not being stretched enough. It was also only her third or fourth acting role or somewhere around there so I think she did amazing with so little experience and everything. And then of course coming back she had to place herself back into Rose's shoes and was competing for screen time with so many other characters in Stolen Earth and Journey's End. But, yeah, Secret Diary of a Call Girl really shows off her acting skills so much better :)
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 04:28am on 29/09/2010
Very nice indeed! I very much enjoyed your uses of Rose and Martha. ;-)

Yes STE/JE was very much crammed with everyone and the kitchen sink, wasn't it? Probably one of the major reasons I don't like it that much despite some really good moments.
 
posted by [identity profile] sue-denimme.livejournal.com at 02:49pm on 28/09/2010
Will you hit me if I say I liked Rose with Nine *and* with Ten? Mainly because I loved how happy she made both of them. Shutting up now about Rose.

Can I haz Donna or Ten, plz? I'll be happy with Nine, too. Or hell, even Eleven. (I know, I'm greedy.) Or is this something where only one person can do each character, and they've already been grabbed?
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 12:05am on 29/09/2010
Goodness, I don't mind people having opinions that differ from mine!

*lol* Nope, the list is random. And you may have Donna, but you have to give your opinion of Sylvia as well. ;-)
 
posted by [identity profile] jessicaqueen.livejournal.com at 04:01pm on 28/09/2010
Thing is, I love Rose largely BECAUSE she's very flawed, so I'm in no way in denial about that. And I very much agree with you about the Season 4 contradictions. Still, I have to take exception to a couple of things you've said here.

it seemed like she had caused the problems in the first place by trying to cross over to the proper universe. So Donna's fate is Rose's fault and not Ten's.

No. JUST NO. Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. People say that all the time, and I can't see any support for it in canon. Rose could only cross the universes because the effect of the Reality Bomb had ALREADY reverberated through all universes, breaking down the walls. Rose would not have been able to cross over to her old universe in the first place if things hadn't already gone to crap long before then. She doesn't cause anything, because, in a way (for her universe at least), the bad stuff's already happened. Yes, you could argue that she's increasing the cracks in the universe by popping back and forward in the same way as the Torchwood of Pete's World does in Doomsday, but it doesn't actually matter in this case, because in the end it has no effect on anything. She DOESN'T make things worse, though admittedly she doesn't do much to make anything better, either. You COULD say that Rose is indirectly responsible for what happened to Donna because, without Rose, Donna wouldn't have even BEEN there for Journey's End. Without Rose's help, Donna would presumably have still been off stuck in the Turn Left parallel universe for the rest of her life. Is that in any way a preferable ending for Donna than what happened in Journey's End? Otherwise, I understand that you might be pissed at Rose for taking screentime away from Donna, but that's the only way in which she made Donna's situation any worse than it would otherwise have been.

she's supposed to be unique and it's the only special thing I can understand her having.

No, actually, I very much disagree. She isn't supposed to be unique. She's supposed to be the everyman (everywoman?) of society. She's unique in the same way that we're all unique, because no two people are exactly alike, but beyond that she's just an ordinary human young woman. Rose's very purpose as a character is to show that any person, with the right influence and the right set of principles to fall back on, can do great things. In that way, Rose and Donna are very alike.
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 12:08am on 29/09/2010
That's all right, you're allowed to have your opinions and I can have mine.

I hadn't heard anyone else talk about the change of things being Rose's fault, so sad me for not being original, but never mind. There are a lot of 'could be' and 'what if' arguments, but I personally wanted to see the Doctor confront the Trickster/fortune teller (who was presumably dead based on the 'rules' from Sarah Jane Adventures) and have a hand in defeating him and her.

Unfortunately, having seen the show in the order I did, I had it constantly shoved at me that Rose was somehow special. Perhaps I should have swapped unique and special in that sentence, but it was only when I saw Rose in S1 that I understood she was meant to be seen as ordinary. Sadly the first impression tends to linger though...
 
posted by [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com at 09:10pm on 28/09/2010
She became the character I had always hated in the old series - the helpless female who stood and screamed until the Doctor rescued her

Interestingly, the T/R shippers tend to say the exact opposite - that she was more of a damsel in distress with Nine and more kick-ass with Ten.

I'm with you though, as you know. I've never forgotten that quote from the essay that prompted my why I'm not fond of Rose post - that she was the wrong companion for the Doctor Ten became.

I think I'd be far more kindly disposed towards her had she remained in her parallel world and not come back. I think her return cheapened her sacrifice actually - and the Doctor should have been allowed to move on. That's what he's always done, because he has to - if he spent all his time on regrets and on looking back he'd be a head-case and conpletely useless.

I don't doubt that the Doctor loved Rose - but he loved Martha and Donna, too, and all his companions throughout the years.

I wouldn't mind doing this - I will probably do Ten anyway, but you could give me another and I'll try both, if that's allowed :-)
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 12:16am on 29/09/2010
I don't know, she saved Nine from the Autons and Nestene Consciousness, was right about the Gelth although it was never acknowledged, helped fight the Slitheen, was right about the Dalek, was the necessary run-about against the Child, and saved the Doctor and the Universe by defeating the Daleks.

On the other hand, she gave up on the Doctor after he regenerated, was captured by Cassandra and had to be saved, was captured by the monks and had to be saved, seemed to waste time against the Krillitane, sulked during the time with the clockwork droids, got captured and had to be saved by the Cybermen, was captured by the Wire and had to be saved, mourned the not-dead Doctor in the Pit, admittedly did save the day against the Scribble (but didn't have a choice), and just seemed like an extra pair of hands against the combination of Daleks and Cybermen. She just seemed rather extraneous, as you pointed out in your essay.

I would definitely have liked her more if she hadn't come back. She took the gloss off quite a lot of S4, off characters who really deserved it more because they'd had less screen time in any case. And that's where I know the real core of being bitter against her lies, but if I'd said that above, it would just have looked sulky. ;-)

As for someone for you, you may do Ten, but you have to mention his attitude towards Mothers. *g*
 
posted by [identity profile] hp-chloe.livejournal.com at 06:03pm on 29/09/2010
5.) What blood type do you think this character is?

AB negative, because she's supposed to be unique and it's the only special thing I can understand her having.


Hahaha. :'D Bazinga!

I actually really liked Rose in season 1, I ship her with Nine and from a non-shippy point of view I liked her in season 2 for a bit then she just....grated on me. I'm not really sure why.
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 10:03pm on 29/09/2010
*lol* Glad it amused you!
 
posted by [identity profile] kwiknkleen.livejournal.com at 12:09am on 08/10/2010
This is interesting and I agree with it. When I started watching the new Who I liked Rose. I even cried at the end of Doomsday.
But after series four and Donna I find it hard to go back and watch Rose with 10. It is almost excruciating in fact. I don't mind her with 9 though.
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 01:35am on 08/10/2010
Yes, it's interesting how likes and dislikes change, isn't it? But she does suit Nine and match a lot of his quirks, whereas Ten was made to be so different that it's the old round hole, square peg problem.

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