And just in case people don't want to be spoiled (although it might be a bit late for that)...
My problem with this episode?
TOO SOON
Eleven was so magnificent and clever in the way that he defeated the Atraxi and got rid of Prisoner Zero. I needed to see him like that again, to confirm his brilliance and determine in my mind that he really is the Doctor. Similar to what Nine managed with Cassandra and Ten did, also with Cassandra. The fact that Eleven couldn't do that, that he was basically sulking behind that machine (I'm sorry, but for me that's sulking, not raging) gave me pause.
Is that what he is now? The Oncoming Pout (as I've seen with icons of Ten)?
There were bits about Amy that I loved, although the voiceover reminded me a lot of Doomsday and of River in Forest of the Dead, as I don't think it's been used since then. Her breathlessness and enthusiasm at the beginning was gorgeous and just what I would have expected. And I loved her reactions with the little girl, going to investigate the hole, and when she saw the film and rushed to push the button. Even the moments in the whale's mouth had their enjoyable parts (albeit of the gross variety).
The bit I'm afraid I stopped liking was the scene in the Tower.
All I needed to make me happy was, after Amy had hit that button, for the Doctor to snap out of his sulks and do the explaining. It's what he does, after all, be clever. But he was too busy being unhappy that Amy was right and he was wrong.
I needed Amy to be sharing that moment with him, like Donna did with Ten in the alien rock escape pod in Pompeii, rather than sitting in the corner against the wall (like a child in the naughty spot). Even if she'd said 'Doctor, look what's happening with the whale and those children' and, you know, shared her thoughts with him, it would have made me like it (that scene) more.
Instead it's left to Amy to tie it all up in a big bow.
And the problem is that she simply shouldn't know. How did she suddenly make all those connections? She's had her memory wiped, so why her? Why not, for instance, the little girl? Or the Queen? Or - just a thought - maybe THE DOCTOR? You know, the clever chap who's meant to be able to put all the pieces together? The one in the bow tie? The star of the show?
Yeah, that one. The one standing in the corner, grumpily putting bits and pieces together because he hasn't quite managed to put all the clues together. Somehow, he doesn't seem to notice everything quite as well as either Nine or Ten (or Four or most other incarnations of the Doctor, come to think of it) have managed. I talked in my review of The Eleventh Hour how he managed to miss that Amy's radio was fake, and now this.
Maybe he's getting old.
But that's what worries me. Is Amy there to save him from his mistakes now? Is that the companion's new role? 'Cos I'm afraid I don't like it. It's the Doctor's job to do the saving, except on an emotional level, which is what the companions are really there for. But if Amy's going to be throwing herself into the middle of things and doing the last minute dashes, that makes her not a help but a liability.
Look, I want to like them, but they aren't the Doctor and his companion(s) the way I've grown up with them (and no, I didn't watch old!Who religiously, but I've seen enough and know enough of how the rules are meant to work that I think I'm justified in this feeling). Okay, yes, new man in charge, but that doesn't mean you can change the show so utterly that it should be called The Companion instead.
The thing is, the Doctor doesn't have to prove himself to Amy. She's been fixated on him since she was seven. He saved her from the hole in the wall. He's been the most important person in her life for all that time, and in her eyes, he's something like a god.
However he does have to prove himself to the audience. He has to prove that, although his face might have changed, and there will be some differences in his personality, he's still the Time Lord from Gallifrey that we know and love.
My concerns are that with what happened to him in this episode, he's no longer the same Doctor.
If this episode had come later in the series, I would have adored it. Let the Doctor prove himself a bit more and then have Amy step in. Yes, you could argue that the precedent was set with Donna and Ten setting the guidelines in their working partnership early on in the series, but a) it was her third episode, actually no, it was her fourth and b) she'd proved that she had an equality with/mental ascendancy over (at some points) Ten. Even then, she wasn't stepping in front of him and solving it all. She was working WITH him. And that, frankly, is what would have made this episode a better ending.
I can quote a lot of examples where it looks as if the companion is doing all of the work, and completely independently of the Doctor, even going back as far as Rose and the Autons. And yet the Doctor had made darned sure she knew about the anti-plastic. In Last of the Time Lords, Martha is doing the longest ever cross-country run, but we discover later that it's at the Doctor's recommendation. In The Stolen Earth it's Donna who basically solves the problem of the missing planets at the Shadow Proclamation, but the Doctor is the one who pointed out, right back in Partners in Crime "How d'you lose a planet?"
What I'm trying to say is, in those moments where the companion becomes the one to save the Doctor (and usually everyone else besides), it's because the Doctor set it up first.
That's what was missing here.
The Doctor wasn't the driving force behind fixing this, and that felt odd.
I hope this pattern isn't repeated, because I want my amazing problem-solving Doctor back.
Oh, and one last thing. I'm afraid I'm not fond of obvious anvils. They tend to hurt a lot. I much preferred Jabe and Nine with her gentle 'I'm sorry about your loss' and the glistening (and very understated) tears in Nine's eyes to the constant repetition of 'the last of its kind and gentle when children are crying' bit with lots and lots and LOTS of flashy scenes of faces and eyes and hopeless miserable expressions to prove a point.
Clearly Ten isn't the only one who does emo when that particularly topic is brought up.
TL;DR: Basically, I want a Doctor who behaves like a Doctor and is actually the brains behind the whole solution, rather than relying on a companion who's had her memory wiped to fit the pieces together. And I want a companion who needs saving, rather than being the one to do the saving.
Is that too much to ask?
My problem with this episode?
TOO SOON
Eleven was so magnificent and clever in the way that he defeated the Atraxi and got rid of Prisoner Zero. I needed to see him like that again, to confirm his brilliance and determine in my mind that he really is the Doctor. Similar to what Nine managed with Cassandra and Ten did, also with Cassandra. The fact that Eleven couldn't do that, that he was basically sulking behind that machine (I'm sorry, but for me that's sulking, not raging) gave me pause.
Is that what he is now? The Oncoming Pout (as I've seen with icons of Ten)?
There were bits about Amy that I loved, although the voiceover reminded me a lot of Doomsday and of River in Forest of the Dead, as I don't think it's been used since then. Her breathlessness and enthusiasm at the beginning was gorgeous and just what I would have expected. And I loved her reactions with the little girl, going to investigate the hole, and when she saw the film and rushed to push the button. Even the moments in the whale's mouth had their enjoyable parts (albeit of the gross variety).
The bit I'm afraid I stopped liking was the scene in the Tower.
All I needed to make me happy was, after Amy had hit that button, for the Doctor to snap out of his sulks and do the explaining. It's what he does, after all, be clever. But he was too busy being unhappy that Amy was right and he was wrong.
I needed Amy to be sharing that moment with him, like Donna did with Ten in the alien rock escape pod in Pompeii, rather than sitting in the corner against the wall (like a child in the naughty spot). Even if she'd said 'Doctor, look what's happening with the whale and those children' and, you know, shared her thoughts with him, it would have made me like it (that scene) more.
Instead it's left to Amy to tie it all up in a big bow.
And the problem is that she simply shouldn't know. How did she suddenly make all those connections? She's had her memory wiped, so why her? Why not, for instance, the little girl? Or the Queen? Or - just a thought - maybe THE DOCTOR? You know, the clever chap who's meant to be able to put all the pieces together? The one in the bow tie? The star of the show?
Yeah, that one. The one standing in the corner, grumpily putting bits and pieces together because he hasn't quite managed to put all the clues together. Somehow, he doesn't seem to notice everything quite as well as either Nine or Ten (or Four or most other incarnations of the Doctor, come to think of it) have managed. I talked in my review of The Eleventh Hour how he managed to miss that Amy's radio was fake, and now this.
Maybe he's getting old.
But that's what worries me. Is Amy there to save him from his mistakes now? Is that the companion's new role? 'Cos I'm afraid I don't like it. It's the Doctor's job to do the saving, except on an emotional level, which is what the companions are really there for. But if Amy's going to be throwing herself into the middle of things and doing the last minute dashes, that makes her not a help but a liability.
Look, I want to like them, but they aren't the Doctor and his companion(s) the way I've grown up with them (and no, I didn't watch old!Who religiously, but I've seen enough and know enough of how the rules are meant to work that I think I'm justified in this feeling). Okay, yes, new man in charge, but that doesn't mean you can change the show so utterly that it should be called The Companion instead.
The thing is, the Doctor doesn't have to prove himself to Amy. She's been fixated on him since she was seven. He saved her from the hole in the wall. He's been the most important person in her life for all that time, and in her eyes, he's something like a god.
However he does have to prove himself to the audience. He has to prove that, although his face might have changed, and there will be some differences in his personality, he's still the Time Lord from Gallifrey that we know and love.
My concerns are that with what happened to him in this episode, he's no longer the same Doctor.
If this episode had come later in the series, I would have adored it. Let the Doctor prove himself a bit more and then have Amy step in. Yes, you could argue that the precedent was set with Donna and Ten setting the guidelines in their working partnership early on in the series, but a) it was her third episode, actually no, it was her fourth and b) she'd proved that she had an equality with/mental ascendancy over (at some points) Ten. Even then, she wasn't stepping in front of him and solving it all. She was working WITH him. And that, frankly, is what would have made this episode a better ending.
I can quote a lot of examples where it looks as if the companion is doing all of the work, and completely independently of the Doctor, even going back as far as Rose and the Autons. And yet the Doctor had made darned sure she knew about the anti-plastic. In Last of the Time Lords, Martha is doing the longest ever cross-country run, but we discover later that it's at the Doctor's recommendation. In The Stolen Earth it's Donna who basically solves the problem of the missing planets at the Shadow Proclamation, but the Doctor is the one who pointed out, right back in Partners in Crime "How d'you lose a planet?"
What I'm trying to say is, in those moments where the companion becomes the one to save the Doctor (and usually everyone else besides), it's because the Doctor set it up first.
That's what was missing here.
The Doctor wasn't the driving force behind fixing this, and that felt odd.
I hope this pattern isn't repeated, because I want my amazing problem-solving Doctor back.
Oh, and one last thing. I'm afraid I'm not fond of obvious anvils. They tend to hurt a lot. I much preferred Jabe and Nine with her gentle 'I'm sorry about your loss' and the glistening (and very understated) tears in Nine's eyes to the constant repetition of 'the last of its kind and gentle when children are crying' bit with lots and lots and LOTS of flashy scenes of faces and eyes and hopeless miserable expressions to prove a point.
Clearly Ten isn't the only one who does emo when that particularly topic is brought up.
TL;DR: Basically, I want a Doctor who behaves like a Doctor and is actually the brains behind the whole solution, rather than relying on a companion who's had her memory wiped to fit the pieces together. And I want a companion who needs saving, rather than being the one to do the saving.
Is that too much to ask?
thoughtful
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It's interesting to read your thoughts. :) I think mine are the complete opposite, though. I love that Amy doesn't need saving, and I would argue that neither Donna, Martha nor Rose did either. I think it's actually a bit insulting especially to Martha that you give the Doctor credit for what she did.
But I do agree that the anvils about the Doctor =
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*offers you ice for the anvil-caused lump*
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I certainly don't want damsel-in-distressitis (beautiful phrase) although, again, that's sort of what happens in this show, but a bit of working together would make things more comfortable to me. Your icon speaks volumes.
As for Amy's obsession, you're so right, but then small children can do that, particularly if the loss of her parents is quite recent, as her reaction to his questions seemed to imply that it was - that she'd latch on to the first person who made her feel safe, and since the Doctor saved her from the gap in her wall, I suppose it was natural. Uncomfortable, but natural. Can you imagine what her poor aunt must have gone through, trying to find people who could help her?!
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Your icon reminds me of an amoeba, however it's spelt. It's creepy.
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Perhaps you prefer this one? ;-)
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Here's the kicker though. The guy's name? Matt Tennant.
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But seriously the guy's name really was Matt Tennant.
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And I felt the power of the Oncoming Temper Tantrum, personally. But I know what you mean. ;)
I want Moffat to run things his way, but his way seems to be "change everything I can just because I can". He's even admitted to it, and that's what makes me mad. Basically I was a huge unfan of this episode. (Except Liz Ten, who was FREAKING AWESOME and stuff.)
And ditto on the subtlety mace. Gah, it hurts....
What were your thoughts specifically on the memory wipe thing? (You might have said something and I missed it, so if so, sorry; I'm really jittery right now and a bit spaced.) I found his reaction to that particularly interesting.
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But yes, definitely less of the companion running the show would have been preferable.
Hmm, I picked up that he shouted a lot, but that seems to be what 11 does when somethings goes wrong, like when the sonic died in TEH. I always find cold, quiet fury more unsettling and scary that yelling because the former suggests that the person being cold and menacing has enough control to do whatever they want, whereas the latter just implies that the person is frustrated and helpless.
Yes, too many changes are definitely a bad thing. And I too enjoyed Liz Ten.
*offers you aspirin and water*
As for the memory wipe, I think I left it out because it plays such a big role in the fic I have in mind, but I certainly found it unsettling. I'm going to blame the Doctor's reaction on the parallels he found between those buttons and what he did to Donna, because otherwise I'm not sure quite what it can be blamed on.
In fact, that's another thing. The Doctor seemed to be almost taking the 'safe' way out here. Only killing one star whale was easier than possibly risking all those people. Why didn't he ask questions to find out just why people thought the ship would be destroyed? Why didn't he try to see if there was a way to keep it tied together and make the engine work? Why didn't he turn off the torture and see if that made a difference (as we know it would have done)? It suggests someone who really doesn't think outside the square, which, again, previous Doctors always have done.
*butts in but it has to be said*
*Butts out*
Re: *butts in but it has to be said*
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I don't know that Amy's any smarter than Donna and Martha and Rose - but I wonder if growing up with the Doctor as an imaginary friend has given her a head start on Companioning? I'm reading a book about the Narnia Chronicles and it's pointed out that Lewis makes much of children needing to read the right books in order to know how to adventure in Narnia. Maybe this is something similar? Part of Amy's mind has been tuned to adventuring with the Doctor ever since she was a child.
Plus she's a Scot (living in England) - obviously more brilliant than the general English population from which previous Companions have come! *grins*
(I did love Liz 10 and the fact that 'the Family' have passed down stories of the Doctor. She was awesome.)
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I love the idea that there's a manual on How To Be A Good Companion, but really, there ought to be. With an alphabetical index of enemies for easy identification (except for the page on the Master, which will have had the picture of the most recent version of him licked off the page by drooling fangirls).
It's possible that Amy's somehow attuned to him, but I never meant to imply that she's smarter than the others. Just that she somehow filled the gap when the Doctor was somehow incapable of seeing any other option than the one he'd come up with. Is that what we've got now? Not just a companion who can see outside the box (in the same way that Rose, Martha and Donna could) but a Doctor who can't, so he needs the companion more than ever? That's going to get pretty boring, week in and week out...
And on a lighter note, I think, if we were English, we'd see the whole Scottish thing as another obvious anvil and be sick of it already. As we're not, I just find it hilarious!
Liz 10 was pretty cool, and the fact that the Doctor is legend among them is hilarious. Maybe it was the real reason that Victoria had him banished...
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You know what I see when I compare those hugs? Adults in Ten and Donna, seeking comfort from one another, and children in Eleven and Amy, playing games. I think partly it's the way it's been shot, showing Amy on her tippy-toes and that we see her eyes go from closed to open (the reverse of Donna) and Eleven grinning, which is again a flip-side of the raw agony on Ten's face. I can't see a re-enactment so much as a subversion.
I wanted to like Amy. I did. I wanted to like both of them. I admit that they have their moments, but I adored both Ten and Donna from the get-go. That didn't happen here, and it's disappointing me very severely.
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You're right about the hugs, not so much of a re-enactment because it was defintely the opposite in the ways you pointed out.
I wanted to like her to but she's just blah to me. I want a new companion and I'm ready for her to leave. Or maybe if she was developed as a proper character it would be better -__-
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I would like Amy a lot more if we knew more about her background. I realise it's a big mystery, but I find that frustrating. We know she has a sort-of boyfriend in Rory and she may or may not be getting married (she could be getting married to Jeff for all we know!). We know she bossed people in her village around and was embarrassed about her attachment to the Doctor.
And - that's it. It's not a lot to go on, and I don't always want to have to fill in the gaps myself. I'd like to have some of that done for me so I have a base on which to build my understanding of the character's motivation and desires.
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I'm not won over by Eleven, however I'm finding Matt Smith to be adorable, particularly when I watched him on Jonathan Ross a few weeks back. I'd be more than willing to watch him in other projects he has, I just can't see him as the Doctor yet.
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Of course, it doesn't help that I can see the storylines with Ten more comfortably than I can with Eleven...
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It also doesn't help when the plot bunnies keep multiplying.
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I'm trying really hard to stay reasonably objective about Matt Smith, and not compare him to what's gone before. He's obviously talented and I like that his Doctor is different - he's clumsy and awkward where Ten was graceful, he's quiet where Ten was like Tigger on acid - but that said, I'm starting to wonder if he'll be able to pull off the heavier stuff. I've been thinking about that all day, and what you said about quiet menace is absolutely true. I've had the "I used to have so much mercy" speech in my head all day, and I can't imagine Eleven having the gravitas to pull it off in the same way; to not have it come across as an empty threat.
I know this happens with every successive Doctor, but David left such a massive hole - I'm only now starting to realise just how big it is.
BUT. Without wanting to spoil you completely - there is hope. You'll get ep3 next week - so don't watch the last ten minutes if you don't want your head to explode with annoyance, but the week after is well worth the wait.
As for Amy - meh. Gillan isn't that good an actress and her mannerisms and expressions annoy me. I really hope she gets better though, because I don't want to go through this series (and the next) disliking the companion. It's bad enough doing that whenever I see an episode from S2!
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The thing was, I believed Ten right away. He was convincing and emotional and the only wrong buttons he pushed for me was when he was being doe-eyed at Rose. Even then, that was only a few moments in various episodes, and the rest of his acting made it worthwhile. Sadly, much as I wanted that to happen with Eleven, it didn't.
*lol* Being a World War II buff, I've been very eager to see what happens next week. I adored The Empty Child/Doctor Dances as much for their setting as their story, so I'm hoping this one won't disappoint. As for the week after, that's the Angels, isn't it? *bounces* Maybe I'll start loving Eleven then. I hope so, because I do want to!
With Amy, yes, I also want to like her. As you say, not liking the companion is a huge problem. There are great storylines in S2, but I'm with you. Rose spoils them for me, particularly considering how much I loved her in S1 with Nine!
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So did I. I'm trying to think back to the first time I saw TCI, but it's almost impossible to get back into that mindset. But certainly, he had me from "did you miss me?", and probably even from the minute he stepped out of the TARDIS and collapsed.
I like Eleven well enough so far, but he's not the Doctor yet for me, even after this week's episode. I read something yesterday which suggested that maybe Moffat is deliberately NOT defining him in the way that Nine and Ten were, in order to bring back or preserve that slight distance that the Doctor should have as an outsider, someone who's clearly NOT human. I just think that, coming after the most human Doctor of them all, who had one of the longest tenures iun the role - and who happened to be played by one of the finest actors of his generation - perhaps the contrast is too great to make it as easy a transition as the previous one from Nine to Ten.
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I need a moment that will set him in stone as 'the Doctor' for me. I thought it was going to be when he beat the Atraxi, but 'I'm never saying that again' kind of spoilt it. Then I kept expecting him to open his mouth about the truth of the star whale, but he didn't. If it doesn't come soon, I won't be happy...
And I don't object to the Doctor being more alien (which Nine patently was), just so long as he's ticking all of the 'Doctor' boxes. Sadly, so far, he isn't.
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