posted by [identity profile] eloriekam.livejournal.com at 07:20pm on 23/11/2013
I just got a chuckle out of imagining fic getting rejected as RPF because of people using 'John Smith'. Sorry... can I blame it being T-39 minutes to the special? (well, 31 by the time I post this, and I also did subtraction wrong the first time)

That's strange about Sylvia (I know there's a fair bit of Teaspoon, erm, illogic? that I missed, coming to fandom post-Ten). At least there's one now, but it's not like she was in multiple episodes or anything--no, wait, TRB, PiC, TSS/TPS, TL, TSE, JE, EoT.

That's kind of a weird category for him? It sounds like they're not sure what to do with him.

You're excited for the special, though? :)
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 07:24pm on 23/11/2013
Hee! Oh, that's a classic idea! I'm almost tempted to claim that I AM John Smith and thus all fic using that name is RPF and must be removed IMMEDIATELY, DAMN IT!!

Yes, they are very arbitrary, which is what bothers me. I would ask again, but they were incredibly snippy when I mentioned it last time, so I think I'll save myself the aggravation.

I think that's exactly right! I'm now imagining (fantasising?) that they actually use the name 'John Hurt' for him in the episode and I get a lovely, grovelling apology from Teaspoon tomorrow. Hey, a girl can dream, right?

And you bet I am! Can't wait!
 
posted by [identity profile] eloriekam.livejournal.com at 09:47pm on 23/11/2013
LOL!! I wonder how all the John Smiths of the world feel, reading things like Human Nature AUs.

They were snippy about adding a Sylvia category? Every time I try to get myself to think that attitudes about S4 are just a small minority, there seems to be another reason not to think that.

I kept an eye out for his name in the episode, at least until I got overwhelmed trying to keep up with everything (and whether or not I actually liked every bit/the overall episode).

I may have shrieked a couple of times... still making up my mind in general but hope you found some things to like too!
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 09:55pm on 23/11/2013
Yup, I wanted to think I was just being precious, but there is a distinct bias against it.

Trust me, there was no use of another name! I also checked! (And am slightly disappointed, if the truth be known.)

And I adored it! All of it! I did figure out in advance that Elizabeth would be a Zygon and also that Hurt would at least begin to regenerate, so they weren't huge shocks to me, but I loved it all. I think it's because all I wanted was for the War Doctor to be given a good storyline, which he was.

The one thing that bugged me was the fact that Clara saved the day. Again. That is getting old pretty darned fast.
 
posted by [identity profile] eloriekam.livejournal.com at 10:20pm on 23/11/2013
Nah, everyone loves Donna and Donna's series on the show... erm, sorry *tells the sarcasm to take a seat* (I laugh when I think about Ten saying he's rude and not ginger... very me, except DT has a foot on me.)

I was hoping for a number, if not a name. 8.5? Nine? If we got 13 of them to the rescue (and I'm really not sure how I feel about that), what happens next? Does he get a new set as reward? There's precedent for that, I think I'd actually like that conversation.

You got further than I did in figuring things out from the spoilers--I'd definitely gotten we'd have Ten, Elizabeth, and Zygons in the same place, but I hadn't figure out who the Zygons would be mimicking. (I'm sad I haven't been able to see the 4th Doctor Zygons story yet.) It also took me up until a few days ago to figure out that Billie Piper's character wouldn't be Rose. Hurt's Doctor was given a pretty decent storyline, yeah, especially considering the time constraints.

That is getting old pretty darned fast.

Agreed... I like Clara to kind of like her, but while the companion does sometimes save him from himself, he/she doesn't always have to, and quite frankly, in this episode of all of them, it didn't have to be Clara. I'm envisioning Captain Jack just looking at Ten and Eleven, for example, and there are other companions they could have gotten back. (Confession: I'm one of the fans who loves The Five Doctors simply because of all the companions and Doctors, and overlooks just about everything else that might be/is wrong with it, so seeing other companions in this episode was a box I really wanted to check off. The photo wall was nice, and I liked they focused on Susan's photo, but it wasn't the same. LOL, sorry, long parenthetical.)
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 10:32pm on 23/11/2013
*lol* Love it!

I think they specifically avoided a number to prevent confusion and upsetting the fans. Probably sensible of them. But I'm certainly Twelve will have a new set/tardis because that gives them more merchandising opportunities (hence Eleven having three tardises and counting if the junk-yard version is included).

Oh, see, I love putting things together, and I was also trying desperately to make it fit with Redemption. It didn't, of course, but I think I still did a good job of tidying that up.

I always assumed they wouldn't just get Billie to play Rose as that limits things so much as to when events take place in various timelines.

And I think Moff has painted himself into a corner with Clara because, since she's scattered herself through the Doctor's timeline, even if she doesn't verbalise the solution to a problem, the assumption will be that she created it anyway by already having been there, seen it all and done it all. Gah.

I just want the Doctor to save the day on his own mettle now and then. Is that so bad when, after all, it's his show?
 
posted by [identity profile] eloriekam.livejournal.com at 11:09pm on 23/11/2013
Heehee, thanks... I have more (I always have more, especially since I just stopped by some D/R-oriented tumblrs) but I try to keep it in my pocket. Someone should do a study about character critique standards in this fandom.

Thinking about it more, they might be in a sort of no-win situation with Hurt's Doctor, because I think there's going to be confusion either way--he was introduced out of chronological order, so there are a lot of ways to refer to him. I think it's mostly Hurt Doctor or War Doctor now, but I can see later fans (or some revival down the line) calling him Nine without context, hence confusing us cranky old-timers. Eleven's current TARDIS is rather beautiful, but it does seem a bit greedy, especially since the changes to the TARDIS through the classic series were minimal except for the wood version with Four.

I always assumed they wouldn't just get Billie to play Rose as that limits things so much as to when events take place in various timelines.

It never made sense in combination with knowing Queen Elizabeth would be in the special, but I was also going at it from the point of view/idea that because of Rose's popularity, etc., she had to be in the special. (Part of that is also on me as a fanfic writer, because I wanted to write a 50th fic in June-August when I was less busy, and didn't because I can't write Rose, so a couple of assumptions and a frustration reinforced each other.)

I was actually sort of furious that Moffat had Clara all through the Doctor's timeline, because of the on-show implications and the fourth-wall issue that it looks like he's trying to one-up RTD.

Oh, me too! I want him running around and making gadgets and escaping in ridiculous fashions and all of that.
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 11:19pm on 23/11/2013
I did think about doing that sort of critique study, but I think all of the love for Rose and the hate for anyone else (or the love for Amy and the hate for anyone else) would do my head in. The extremes in this fandom are really quite terrifying!

I think that's exactly right. The idea is a great one, but there are all sorts of problems associated with it that will probably never be solved. But then again, when someone's a time-traveller, you can't expect their life/lives to be straightforward!

Ah, yes, that's irritating! I did make sure I included Rose in my 50th fic and I tried to keep her balanced and quite positive. (I was proud of myself with what I achieved actually.) The thing is, she isn't that BAD a character. The real problem comes when she won't leave, and because her fans are quite terrifying.

And yes, I hate that about Clara, too. My fic did diminish her powers quite substantially because it bothers me so much.

Yup! Well, maybe whenever we get a new runner, that will be possible again...
 
posted by [identity profile] eloriekam.livejournal.com at 11:51pm on 24/11/2013
They are rather scary, yeah, and with so many characters to work with, it's not something I saw coming when I ventured into Whodom. Although, a few months ago I got the impression that Doctor/River shippers are cool with him having other relationships, which I wasn't expecting based on most D/R experiences, because Doctor/River is also canon. Reminds me, on the way in today, it occurred to me that an equally interesting study would be to look at how those who ship canon ships regard the non-canon ships/shippers in different fandoms, and if there's any patterns with regard to the time fans had to wait for the ship to be canon. I can think of one where it took almost 7 years, and another where it took 4, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some because I'm not thinking about Star Trek. I sometimes think I'm too flexible to be a real shipper, I can see subtext and UST almost anywhere if I watch something enough!

Erm, I should probably mention that this sums me up right now: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1650

I am planning on reading your 50th fic... every time I saw you update it there was a sort of involuntary twitch toward clicking on the cut and then I chickened out for worry I'd get totally sucked in and get nothing done. Which doesn't seem to have stopped me in this comment thread.... ;) And yeah, the keep-coming-back thing made me shake my head, and I was watching it years after the fact before I stepped into Whodom, so I can only imagine what it was like at the time. Surely you jest, her fans are all incredible and kind and all that, and it's the Donna fans who are terrifying. ;-)

It seems that a lot of new Who female companions have special powers, and that's used as a significant basis for their character and character development (or what I think is supposed to be character development?). Err, I forgot where I was going with that, but it was most likely something about the classic Who companions usually just being people, and any special qualities being understated, and they could move on from the ones they got (Sarah Jane didn't keep going on about Eldred, for example).

After seeing the special, I also want someone who will not have the Doctor sonic everything. At least Hurt Doctor asked if they were planning to assemble a cabinet at them so I can sort of read it as self-mockery, but I love the sonic and I was sick of it in about a minute. I was happy to see Ten with a thing that goes ding and could microwave stuff, even though we didn't get to see him make it. Until the runner changes, I guess we'll have to write about Twelve (or is it Thirteen?) saving planets with two teaspoons, a bit of string, some random wires, and his hat.
 
posted by [identity profile] katherine-b.livejournal.com at 01:52am on 25/11/2013
Sadly I think the long history of the show, and perhaps also the fact that there are so many different characters to become 'favourites', are responsible for the tension.

Great comic and so very true!

*lol* Well, it's all finished and posted now, so you may read it without worrying that it is still going to grow. No more twitching. ;-) I hope you enjoy it!

*g* I will call Rose's fans 'passionate' and Donna's fans 'thoughtful'. Make of that what you will.

I have to say that I feel this is a difference between Moff and RTD. RTD's companions were special because of the circumstances in which they found themselves. Rose absorbed the tardis. Martha walked the Earth. Donna became the Doctor-Donna. But none of this was pre-determined and the Doctor had no idea it was going to happen until it did. Moff's companions, on the other hand, seem pre-destined to be special and thus OF COURSE their actions lift them above being average people. (Of the two, I prefer RTD's ideas because I like the fact that, given the right circumstances, I, too, could be special and save the day.)

The sad fact is that companions (female) were once known for doing what it says in my icon. Running and screaming from rubber monsters. That doesn't work with modern views of women so their roles had to change. The only time it upsets me is if/when they overshadow the Doctor (because, after all, it's HIS show).

Yes, the sonic has been overused a bit. I would love it if we could have a Doctor who didn't use one. Perhaps that might be the way Moff differentiates Eleven from Twelve. Gadgets are great, but they get a little dull at times. I mean, yes, the sonics got a lot of press in this story because they also represented the Doctors themselves (same engine, different case/body), but they did get a little tiresome.

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